Season 2:

Episode 19

September 21, 2021

Central Park West with Camila Crazut

Share this:


Listen on any of the major podcast streaming platforms including:


Today we speak with Camila Crazut, an architect and interior designer working as a Project Manager at Spivak Architects in New York City. After training and becoming licensed as an architect in Venezuela, Camila came to the US to extend her training with a degree in interior design. Regardless of the title, Camila identifies as a designer capable of a wide range of creative projects, including the project we focus on today, a Central Park West residential apartment. We discuss the unique challenges of executing a renovation project in today’s climate with the increased cost and delayed schedules caused by the pandemic.

For young professionals entering the design and architecture field, it might be easy to accept any project that comes through your door. Camila dives into the characteristics that define a “good client” including trust in the designer, openness to new ideas, and a clear idea of the desired end result. She also shares her experience in identifying signs that a client and project might be a bad fit. Camila shares how design thinking transcends a project’s budget and can provide a satisfying result regardless of the cost of the furniture and finishes.


About Camila Crazut

Camila is an architect and interior designer. She currently works as a Project Manager at Spivak Architects in New York City. Previous to joining the firm, she worked at TPG Architecture and McGinley Design. Her experience as a designer is concentrated in residential and hotel projects, but she has also worked on fascinating public projects like the Islamic Cultural Center near the World Trade Center site. Although she now identifies as an interior designer, Camila was trained and is licensed as an architect in Venezuela. In addition to her current project, Camila shares the differences she identified between her education in the US and abroad and how she navigates different perceptions of the title “interior designer”.

[00:00:00] Announcer: What goes into making an iconic building in America? What are the stories and who are the people behind the next generation of architecture? If your work touches the real estate industry in any way or you’re just curious about what goes into one of a kind cities and towns all across our country, join us on the American Building Podcast.

In season two, we learn about everything from skyscrapers to single family homes. From the famous and soon-to-be famous designers and developers responsible for them. This season focuses particularly on the pandemic and how our buildings will change in response. Our sponsor is the iconic design firm, Michael Graves Architecture & Design. And now your host award-winning architect-turned entrepreneur Atif Qadir, AIA.

[00:00:59] Atif Qadir: This is American building, and I’m your host author Atif Qadir. We are recording from the historic home of world-renowned architect, Michael Graves in Princeton, New Jersey. Check out this amazing space for yourself at the Michael Graves Architecture and Design YouTube channel. Now let’s build something.

 Today, our guest is Camila Crazut. Camila is an architect and interior designer and works as a project manager at Spivak Architects in New York City. Previous to joining the firm, she worked at TPG Architecture and McGinley Design. Her experience as a designer is concentrated in residential and hotel projects, but she has also worked on fascinating public projects like the Islamic Cultural Center near the World Trade Center site.

I will note that while Camila was at McGinley and I was at Excel Development, we worked together on the 500 East 14th Street project in the lower east side. Today, we’ll be talking about her Central Park West project, an apartment renovation on the upper west side of Manhattan. More broadly, we will talk about what makes a good client and perhaps more interestingly, what makes a bad client.

Thank you so much for being here with us, Camila.

[00:02:14] Camila Crazut: Thank you for having me, Atif. This is great.

[00:02:17] Atif Qadir: Absolutely. My pleasure. So let’s dive right in. You did your training in architecture in Venezuela and your training in interior design in the United States. What were the differences in how you were taught in those two places?

[00:02:32] Camila Crazut: Well huge difference. I would say that the education in Venezuela is more European oriented. So when you graduate from high school, you actually go to your career. And it’s not like here that you can have like a two or three years of basic classes, and then you decide where you go. And then actually you finally decide then of your career with a master degree or something like that. In Venezuela, is more like a university is not a college and you go, and you’re a lawyer, a doctor, an architect, engineer, psychologist, something like that.

And it’s supposed to be that it’s supposed to be the rest of your life. So you’re going to be that for the rest of your life. When I came to New York to study interior design that I thought it was a compliment to architecture, I realized that it was not. That it was same here, like a completely different field, that it didn’t matter what was my background before taking the masters.

So I had some classmates, they didn’t have any background in architecture or design, and I was baffled by that. But I’ve been here now for 23 years, so now I understand that you can change.

[00:03:48] Atif Qadir: So it sounds like change is one of those things that are different. This idea of compartmentalization. And how about, about scale? Is that another thing that tends to be different in terms of what a designer is able to do in terms of large scale and small scale in a place like Venezuela versus the United States?

[00:04:05] Camila Crazut: I would say that it’s less, as you say, compartmentalize. You’re an architect, so you are supposed to be able to design whatever from a house to a building. And then here you realize that architects have different niches. So if you are known to being a residential designer, a house designer, so people may think that you are not able to design a whole building. And maybe we’d experienced that could happen. I mean, that you are so used to do the same thing. You get all the details of doing one thing that then at the end, you’re much better doing that one that’s a new one.

But the idea when you leave the University, then you are a complete architect. I mean that you are supposed to be able to design whatever. I mean to understand, because at the end is a, is a problem. It’s a design problem and you’ll have the tools to understand the design problem and to resolve it.

[00:05:03] Atif Qadir: And in that context, since you have the experience and education both as an architect and an interior designer, how do you introduce yourself to people that you meet?

[00:05:16] Camila Crazut: It has changed over time. So right now I introduce as an interior designer. I’m non-licensed here in United States, so I’m not supposed to use the term architect, although I’m licensed in Venezuela. So that’s like a gray area, but after the years I understood that that’s my niche, interior design. I would like to say more into your architecture because when you say interior designsome people think that is just the decoration or finishes and it’s more than that.

Well, yeah, at this point I introduce myself as an interior designer

[00:05:55] Atif Qadir: And then you have worked on your own and also you have worked as part of design firms. What was the process in making the decision like to start your own practice and work on your own? And then later returned to a design firm?

[00:06:11] Camila Crazut: Well, I did work on my own in Venezuela.

[00:06:13] Atif Qadir: Ah, got it. Okay.

[00:06:14] Camila Crazut: Yeah. So it’s completely different. So I’m from there. I have the connections. I have the friends. When I came to United States. So for me it was easier to start in the office. I have done some little projects for friends here in the United States, projects for friends. I think it’s difficult for somebody that is not from here to start your own office or business, especially in something like the architecture.

I think you need to have unique connections. You need to know people and you also need to feel comfortable with all the details that it takes to have an office from taxes to HR. I still don’t feel comfortable. I still feel that I’m learning a lot of how the business is here in the United States

[00:07:02] Atif Qadir: And then the firm that you’re currently with the project that we’re going to be focusing on is the Central Park West project.

So talk to us about the upper west side, the neighborhood where this project is located and the building itself because many of our listeners are actually from outside New York City and we want to give them a perspective of Manhattan and specifically this part of Manhattan,

[00:07:25] Camila Crazut: The upper west side is a residential neighborhood. It’s next to Central Park. It’s a family neighborhood, but also very high-end neighborhoods. So it’s all upper class area. The building itself is, uh, Central Park West. So it faces the Central Park. So you’re just crossing the street and you have this huge garden.

[00:07:50] Atif Qadir: And the west refers to being on the west side of the park, right?

[00:07:54] Camila Crazut: West side of the park. Yeah. And then you have the east side that is a similar kind of neighborhood this way. It’s on the west. I will say there was this more familiar oriented that there is, that’s the stereotype. And that’s how people here in Manhattan think about it. And the main thing is a pre-war. It’s not a tall, uh, I think it’s 11 floors , 11 to 12. And as I say, it’s a pre-war building, so it’s very old one.

[00:08:23] Atif Qadir: And when people say pre-war and the United States, or in New York City specifically, that means before WWII, right? So that means, uh, 1930s, 1920s, et cetera, like that. Okay.

The scope of the apartment renovation. Could you walk through that for us as well?

[00:08:43] Camila Crazut: Yes. This claim came to our office because they saw another project, uh, the office did sometime ago, and they really like it and they liked the concept. And they had this apartment and they approached the office asking for same ideas that were they saw in the other apartment.

So this is a completely renovation project. So we completely demolished the whole apartment. So everything was removed. We have been working on it since then.

[00:09:12] Atif Qadir: Except the structure and the facade. Right?

[00:09:17] Camila Crazut: All the interior walls, all the bathrooms, kitchen, plumbing, electrical. Everything was removed and done.

[00:09:26] Atif Qadir: And in terms of the number of bedrooms and bathrooms, how much was that?

[00:09:32] Camila Crazut: So we have three bedrooms, three bathrooms, one office, one guest bedroom. We have open kitchen living and dining area, so openly out, and we have a TV family area that it could be closer open towards the living room area.

[00:09:51] Atif Qadir: And who were your clients and what was the process like and working with them?

[00:09:55] Camila Crazut: They are a couple with two kids. They are both professionals. He has his own company. They approach, as I say, they approached the office because they saw this project that they obviously saw before and they really like it. They are very open to our suggestions and they are very willing to work with us and they understand what is the role of the architects and designers. So it has been actually a very good project in that time. It has been very good to work with them.

[00:10:31] Atif Qadir: Are past projects one of the most common ways that your firm gets new projects?

[00:10:38] Camila Crazut: Yeah, it is. I mean, whereas various small firm and more like a boutique studio. We actually don’t have any niche.

We work in different kinds of projects, which is good sometimes I would sayisn’t good sometimes because as I say before, I mean, people that like when the architect or designer is just working in one thing. But this is the way the our house get new clients and retain clients.

[00:11:05] Atif Qadir: And Howard is the owner and the founder of the firm?

[00:11:08] Camila Crazut: Howard is the architect. Okay.

[00:11:11] Atif Qadir: And in terms of the client, would you say that they are very detailed or they gave you pretty much full range to do whatever you want? Like how did that process work?

[00:11:21] Camila Crazut: Well, the specifically this one, I mean, they came saying we really like this idea that you did in this other project, which was, uh, apartment where the millwork was part of, uh, the read as the walls of the project.

So they really liked this idea. And also they like that it had a lot of closets and had a lot of storage. So that was a concept that was used on this design from the very beginning. So they are very open. They really know what they want, but they are open to suggestions.

They tell you, we want this or this feeling. And then we come with solutions and they say, yes, it’s going towards this. Or it’s not going to work this.

[00:12:01] Atif Qadir: And then walk our listeners through the apartment, describing what they would see along the way, including these beautiful millwork walls.

[00:12:10] Camila Crazut: Well, when you get into the apartment, you have your hall foyer space where you’re going to have this beautiful millwork that is actually your closet for your coats. And then you’re going to see a peak of the open area, the living room and the dining room on your left. You’re going to see the open kitchen, which is a kitchen that actually has a glass wall that when you’re not using the part of the kitchen, you just close that wall.

And then you’re going to see all this millwork up to eight feet high. Um, the way that we design it is that it has the impression that it doesn’t have any wall on top, so you can see through, but actually there is subdivisions. And then you’re going to have these beautiful hallway with all this millwork that has some interesting features, because the poles are, is a piece of mood that is undulating. And those are the bedrooms. And then on your right, I mean, living room and dining room has all these windows that you can see the Central Park.

[00:13:15] Atif Qadir: So in your design process, because the views of Central Park are so valuable and something that people really appreciate. What role did those, like the windows and the where natural light was coming in, play in your design process for the interiors?

[00:13:29] Camila Crazut: It was a big role. Actually, the whole layout of the apartment was changed for what it was. So the beginning, I mean, remember this is all apartment. And actually one of the areas that has all these beautiful windows to the Central Park was a bedroom. And you couldn’t see it from the entrance of the, when you enter the apartment.

So we changed the whole layout to take advantage of those windows and to have more windows into the living areas. The bedroom windows are windows that view to across the street. Still, you can peek a little bit too to the Central Park, but not as much. For them, it was a priority to have the main views in the living area.

[00:14:09] Atif Qadir: You are about 90% done with the project. Now, looking back, what would you say are some of the biggest challenges you faced in the design process and then executing that?

[00:14:21] Camila Crazut: The challenge that we faced was the building.

[00:14:26] Atif Qadir: What do you mean by that?

[00:14:27] Camila Crazut: The co-op

[00:14:29] Atif Qadir: Got it. Oh, the cooperative structure.

[00:14:31] Camila Crazut: It was a co-op building. So it has a whole process of, uh, approvals. All your drawings have to go to the co-op chair. We have a lot of back and forth with the co-op and we had to change things because the co-op didn’t approved them. They were really afraid of something that is called wet over dry. So if you have a bathroom upstairs and then downstairs is not a bathroom, it could cause a problem. We waterproof the whole apartment, on the floor. Not just the bathrooms I mean, the whole apartment is waterproof.

[00:15:10] Atif Qadir: Why would you do that underneath the living room, for example?

[00:15:13] Camila Crazut: Because we wanted to make sure that they, we were not going to have problems, uh, at the end and we actually removed the whole floor construction.

We just left the structure and we did it again. So because we wanted to have a very level floor. Got it. Since everything is millwork, I mean, it’s very important to have a level floor. So then you don’t have this difference in heights. So the co-op it was very challenging and also unfortunately the pandemic.

[00:15:45] Atif Qadir: Oh yeah, that,

[00:15:47] Camila Crazut: That. That.

[00:15:50] Atif Qadir: But specifically, was it because of labor or materials or both?

[00:15:53] Camila Crazut: Specifically, because time it took time. Okay. Time that we then take in consideration, it took a lot of time from the project and that means money and, yeah, so that means literally like one of my projects stopped for about six weeks until the state figured out what they were doing in terms of allowing construction or not allowing.

[00:16:16] Atif Qadir: Did you have a similar break of six weeks or was it longer or shorter?

[00:16:19] Camila Crazut: It was longer than that.

[00:16:20] Atif Qadir: Got it. Okay.

[00:16:21] Camila Crazut: And the pandemic, it was longer than that. I mean, the building close any access to the building.

[00:16:27] Atif Qadir: Cause it’s different probably than a new construction or even a single family home. Cause you can stage around the property easily.

[00:16:33] Camila Crazut: So we simply couldn’t access the building. They didn’t allow us until the city open all construction.

[00:16:40] Atif Qadir: Got it.

[00:16:41] Camila Crazut: So that was long. I mean, it’s, it’s time, time is money and thank god the client. I mean, he has been very, he understand all this process. He doesn’t need to move immediately. Yeah. So yeah.

[00:16:55] Atif Qadir: I think that that is an incredible challenge in places like New York and New Jersey where the monthly cost of simply having a property is so high from taxes to utilities to your mortgage and everything else. So I can definitely appreciate that.

I’m going to take a break here to let our listeners know that we will be having Faith Rose of O’Neill Rose Architects on next month. Her stunning homes have been featured in New York magazine, the Wall Street Journal,and Architecture Magazine. Make sure to subscribe to the American Building podcast so you don’t miss out on Faith’s interview or any of our other wonderful guests in Season Two.

So Camila, what do you think makes a good client?

[00:17:40] Camila Crazut: Well, I think a good client is the one that understand what is your work that respect you as a designer and understand that it’s coming to you because you have the tools and the preparation to do this type of work. That’s what I think.

What I’m saying that because sometimes you get clients that they look at you and you are just a drafter for them. And they don’t understand why you’re taking the decisions that you’re taking. And they comeback and ask the same questions and you try to explain to them why the way that we are doing it is the way that it could be better for them to use the space.

So that’s what I think it makes a good client and a bad clients. I answered the both questions.

[00:18:29] Atif Qadir: I’m going to ask you a little bit more about the good clients, because it’s the better ones. So you talked about the client being able to understand and appreciate the profession of design and the skills that, that come to it.

Talk to us more about how a good client would be able to express that they just don’t like something versus don’t like your process, or don’t like the way that you’re going about something. Like what is the right way for a client to be able to express that?

[00:18:59] Camila Crazut: Yeah, I would say, I mean the best way for a client to approach a designer and architects, and I’m saying that the word designer, because this applies to any field that you have to design something, is telling the designer, what is the end result?

What do you want at the end? If it is your house, how do you want to feel in your house? How do you, I mean, are you a person that likes to have people in your place? Are you a person that likes to entertain or you’re a private person? That’s the best way to approach the designer. Tell him what are your desires.

How do you feel the end result should be, but not telling me from the beginning I like this type of window or I like this type of, uh, knob door. Because those details are going to be part of the concept I’m going to be. I want to be the result of the part of the concept. So the main, the main thing is the concept that you’re going to have a beginning and the concept is based on those requirements that the client.

[00:20:06] Atif Qadir: So it sounds like then a good client is one that is clear about their desires from the outset, and can clearly differentiate between what is the thought, the emotion, the inspiration, and what is the actualization of it. So to talk about, I want a really easy flow between the kitchen living room because people are always going back, back and forth, rather than saying Camila, I want this door knob for the door between the two. Got it.

I think in a similar way, I could imagine it’s basically, if someone were to go to a surgeon and say, I want this surgery on this part of my body, and I want you to use this tool and this the person would be like what?

[00:20:52] Camila Crazut: Exactly. What I understand too. I mean, this is such a subjective feel. Because at the end, I mean, you are going to live there. So it’s your house. It’s not mine. So I understand that, but there are things that I, as a professional, as an architect, as an interior designer, I know better. Let’s say it. And you should trust. I mean, trust is, is also another word.

Trust me, you should trust your designer and your architect that he’s doing the best for you. The other things like a color finishes, that’s also, that’s like a second part of the design process. So once you have the concept, once you know how the layout is going to work, how the flow, as you say is going to work so you can ask, and you can also start thinking about those.

Although they overlap because we don’t think just on to the, I mean, we think in 3D. So we are thinking at the same time that we are developing a layout. What I’m going to see from here, or if I’m going to have a window here or, or not. And also, I mean, there are all the technical stuff. Now we need to know. I mean, we need to know the codes, the ADA issues. Yeah. It’s a lot.

[00:22:10] Atif Qadir: It’s more than just picking the paint colors, right?

[00:22:13] Camila Crazut: It’s more than just picking a paint color. There is something there. It’s like, I go into a party and asking a doctor, I mean, I have this pain here. What do you think?

[00:22:24] Atif Qadir: Which I think doesn’t stop people from doing it, but it’s kind of hilarious, nonetheless, I think.

[00:22:29] Camila Crazut: Yeah. I think every profession has the same problem. Somehow.

[00:22:34] Atif Qadir: I think that you talked about the clients that you’ve had on the larger, more expensive projects, but you’ve also had good clients on projects of vastly different scope and scale and budget. Could you talk to us about clients on like a different type of project that were good as well? And what particularly was unique about them?

[00:22:55] Camila Crazut: Yeah, I did work for a while with Watson Associates and they did a lot of nonprofit organizations. I specifically work on three of them. One of them was the gold project. They work with kids and they have this office in around Astor place. And it was a very old office and it was all gray and they wanted to renew it.

But of course, being a nonprofit, the budget is always a problem. But they were great because they were so open and all the suggestions that when did, they really wanted cheerful and colorful. And the way that we achieve that, it was a very inexpensive way. We did it with paints. We did it with graphics. We did it with lighting fixtures aware of not expensive, then we solved it.

It was amazing. It was beautiful, but they were connected to us all the way. And they were very helpful, open to all the suggestions that way. So we’re go back to the same thing. I mean, the client that really appreciates you is the one that really helps into the process too is the best client. And at the end is it’s better for the project, because if you have a good relationship with your client, if your client trusts you and you feel good, you go and do more, you know.

[00:24:21] Atif Qadir: So to be fair, we’ve talked about what a good client is. And then what a good designer is. It sounds like someone that is able to observe, to listen, to translate, and to imagine something that isn’t there already. Does that sound like the right pairing with a good client?

[00:24:40] Camila Crazut: Yes. Yeah. As the designer, you also need to listen to your client, not design something because you want to design it.

I, as like, I want to do this because I know it’s going to be great, but I don’t care about where you’re talking about. You know, there are some designers that are like that.

[00:24:57] Atif Qadir: So it’s basically the approach of the Frank Ghery or maybe Richard Meyer approach versus the other designers who are good. I get it.

[00:25:04] Camila Crazut: Well, but if you go to Richard Meyer, you know what you’re going to get because he’s not going to change his ways.

I mean, you know, you’re going to get a very, more white building just to say, you know, playing on basic. It’s more than that. But you don’t go to Richard Meyer and ask him for a Barragan hacienda in Mexico. Yeah. You don’t tell Richard Meyer I want colorful walls. I mean, so you, you are in the wrong place.

[00:25:34] Atif Qadir: That’s actually interesting as well because there is the reality that there could be a good client and a good designer, but they’re just not match for each other. And it’s about finding the right pairing of a good client and a good designer. That’s actually really good point.

[00:25:47] Camila Crazut: Yeah, it’s a good point to learn. It happens when you have your niche, when you have your set on that. The way that our office work though, I mean, we have some style and nobody is going to come to us, asking for the traditional classic design house.

I mean, and if he comes it’s because he didn’t check the webpage and our previous work. But yeah, I mean, we are more open to different suggestions. I mean, that’s what happened when you are a star architect you can pick and choose more.

[00:26:18] Atif Qadir: I think then it’s a lot of fun to gossip too, so tell us about some of those bad clients.

[00:26:24] Camila Crazut: Yeah. But clients in general, the ones that they don’t respect you at all, and they keep asking the same questions, like why? And they’ll have the table here and over there. And we have to explain this because this and this and that we have had a bunch of those.

[00:26:42] Atif Qadir: That actually brings up a really good question of at the outset of an engagement, how can you tell the difference between a good client and a bad client? Maybe you’re at a party you’re at a first meeting somewhere. How do you start getting that impression?

[00:27:00] Camila Crazut: Well, yeah, we had this meeting, this first meeting with a client, for example, we were taking over another project because he fired the previous architect.

[00:27:12] Atif Qadir: That sounds like a warning sign. Number one.

[00:27:14] Camila Crazut: That’s a warning. You need to be clear. You really need to dig in why it was fire. And then. He was very like, uh, I really need to know this and this from the very beginning, there are so many questions in the first meeting that you need to go back and do some research in order to answer.

I mean, um, personally, I don’t like to answer too many questions on the spot because I always want to go back and do research and think my answers. That was another one. Or if they just tell you from the very beginning, this is what I want, but this is what I want. I want the door here. I want the, no, this is what I want as a concept, but this is what I want is a layout and which the, uh, the object itself or the house itself. That’s that you’re going to know that you’re going to have a lot of problems. It’s going to be very difficult to convince otherwise.

[00:28:12] Atif Qadir: So for younger designers that are starting out their own firms, don’t be seduced by this idea of, oh my God, there’s this amazing client. There’s this amazing project. Actually take the time and effort to identify whether that’s going to be a good client or a bad client. That would be advice?

[00:28:29] Camila Crazut: And the project that too, I mean, it’s not just like the client, it’s a project. That’s a good point. This site is going to have problems or not. I mean, if it is, if it is a renovation, I mean, renovations are kind of nightmares because you never know what is going to happen when you demolish.

How is the building, is aco-op? What is a condo? How is the landlord? If it is that retail building, if it is a retail space or office space, what is in the contract? If it is a new space, of course, what are all the codes and zoning and that you are facing in that a lot, there is a lot of research that you should do before.

[00:29:09] Atif Qadir: Before you dive in and sign a contract. Yeah. Cool.

We have also talked at length about how many of the projects that we’ve worked on as architects are for wealthy clients and wealthy institutions with often limitless resources and that are looking for high-end work. I’m curious and I want to hear what you think about what are low end projects and can those projects also be interesting and those clients be interesting too?

[00:29:37] Camila Crazut: And low end I mean, low budgets?

Of course. They’re interesting because then the challenge is to achieve what you want in a low budget. So you have to be creative in your resources and what were talking about. Yeah, exactly. How do we create cheerfulness space without spending a ton of money in furniture or in high-end light fixtures. So it wasn’t the way that we used the colors.

It was the way that we use the graphics, all those non-profits with jobs that I did, the designs that I did, we use a lot of graphics that it wasn’t just. And a lot of color that it was just pain and then made the space more welcoming and more cheerful, as I said, and it’s fun to try to find those, uh, resources to be modular and to achieve something beautiful.

Sometimes we have these crazy ideas and we realize, okay, now this is expensive. Maybe we can do it this way and it’s less expensive or with this material. So with these finishes and if we’re going to get a nice result and I would resolve without blowing the budget.

[00:30:54] Atif Qadir: So it sounds like then the process would be the same for a high end project or a low end, but the materials, the options, the solutions are potentially a different set of things, but looking to achieve similar goals.

[00:31:10] Camila Crazut: The design process is the same, no matter how much money you have, it’s the same designs process is the same. You have to research , you have to talk with your plan. You have to know when you can do it and you can not do. And then you have to design everything.

I mean, a space that is going to cost for example, a bathroom, I mean, you can spend $5,000 or you can spend $100,000, but it’s going to have a toilet, is going to have a shower, is going to have a sink. It needs a toilet paper holder.

You need to draw the same elements, no matter how expensive are those elements that are going to go. So the design of the layout and all this stuff is the same process. Then the design of the finishes and how are you going to finish it is, well, you have more options if you have more money. And if you have less money, you have less options but you can be maybe use a material that is, you don’t see that much in that environment, but it turns out that it says inexpensive material and it’s going to look good and it’s going to do the job. So, yeah.

[00:32:21] Atif Qadir: So then that’s what you would say would be the difference. Okay. And then in the course of these questions, we’ve talked a lot about relationships and being able to read people. And do you feel as an architect then that you have to be more than an architect in order to be successful? Like a psychiatrist, a friend, a teacher, a nanny, a babysitter, like, what are the other roles?

[00:32:47] Camila Crazut: Yeah. All of them. All of them. Yeah. I mean, you have to be very perceptive of your clients, what are the personalities and go along with them. And if it is a residential project, I think it would be the most difficult ones, especially if it is for a family or a couple, because sometimes you have these discussions between the couples in front of you that I don’t want this.

I do want this. Oh, and then you have to be like, okay, you need to, you know, okay. We can do something in the middle. We can compromise. Maybe commercial projects are less difficult on that sense, because you just have one person that you need to usually it’s one person that takes a decision.

[00:33:37] Atif Qadir: You have to try to prevent a divorce as well during that process.

[00:33:40] Camila Crazut: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you’re thinking that this podcast is going to young architects and designers that are just leaving the school. I mean the profession and the working environment what we do is not just design. We do more than that. You have to finance, uh, finances. Relationships, marketing. I mean, it’s a lot.

[00:34:09] Atif Qadir: I think that is perfect way to segue. So thank you so much for joining us today on the American Building podcast, Camila.. If you want to hear the behind the scenes stories of how iconic buildings in our country were designed and built subscribe to this podcast on Spotify, iTunes, Google, or wherever you like to Listen.

We all know real estate is a tough industry to make it. So how can professionals stand out and make a name for themselves in today’s world? Hear for me, the team at Michael Graves and many of our spectacular guests like Camila on what we did to make it where we are. Grab our exclusive guide Seven Tips on How to Stand Out in Your Field at

Finally, we live in the richest country in the history of humankind. We must reach beyond the boundaries that we see and the boundaries that we create in order to help build homes and help build communities today. Camila and I have made donations to Planned Parenthood, which works with women in distress for family planning and reproductive health care. I encourage you our listeners to support their worthwhile work as well.

My name is Atif Qadir, and this has been American Building by Michael Graves.

Subscribe to receive information about upcoming episodes for the American Building podcast series.

By submitting this form, you are consenting to receive marketing emails from: MGA&D, 341 Nassau Street, Princeton, NJ, 08540, US, You can revoke your consent to receive emails at any time by using the SafeUnsubscribe® link, found at the bottom of every email. Emails are serviced by Constant Contact.